Elbow Toe has only been putting stuff out on the streets for about a year. But he is prolific and the pieces often vary wildly in style, gathering from all sorts of influences. Some of his pasted paper pieces could be confused with Swoon's, an indication of his skill as a draftsman. But his developing style of exaggerated postures and inventive distortions are his own aesthetic.
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GammaBlog: OK, first off, Elbow Toe, the name is funny. Where did it come from? Elbow Toe: It actually came out of Neck Face. A few years back I saw a couple of his pieces, those hands. I thought it was the silliest name. Well about a year ago, I was really dry with my own work, and thought I’d try street art. So if there was Neck Face, I’d be Elbow Toe. I’d mix some other body parts together. It had kind of a nice cadence to it, El - Bow - Toe. I like the drawing I did with the cut off arm and the toe, sort of it's physical manefestation; it’s kind of fun, but it’s so stupid. |
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GB: Have you ever regretted….. ET: Now, I do, yeah. I got some drinks with a friend at theRodeo Bar, and had written my name in the bathroom. And someone wrote beneath it, “Elbow Toe – Good Art – Worst Name Ever!” Elbow Toe, you can’t be all coollike “I’m REVS” or something. |
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GB: What kind of things did you draw as a child. GB: How old were you. ET: Not necessarily cartoons, but the Muppets. I loved drawing Kermit and Fozzy and such, and Dr Seuss….
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GB: That must have developed some skills, turning 3-D characters into 2-D drawings. ET: Yeah, it did. My dad would draw with me a lot. I tried to draw superheroes. GB: Was your dad an artist? ET: No, he had been a professional football player, here in New York. So he was definitely more of a jock. But he knew how to draw. My grandfather made the dies they press coins out of. In the summers I would hang out with him and we would also draw together. I always loved drawing more than sports, because it was my own thing, as opposed to sports, where you had to necessarily compete. (Laughs) I got out of it for awhile, when I realized there were these kids who could draw really well, and I found that intimidating. When I was in high school, after my parents had divorced, I was like the new kid in town, and I had to find something to get into. I missed the big clique thing. I got into a commercial art class and really took to it. I wanted to make things as absolutely realistic as I could possibly make them. GB: I can see that. The beauty of line just blows me away. When I see people doing stuff where the line is good, that’s what gets me. That’s what drew me to Swoon. |
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I really like Max Beckman’s work, the theatricality of it, the masked characters. That’s why I do the chicken and the photo pieces I put out. My wife’s an actress. Through her I got into avant guarde theater. I find a lot of theater directors inspiring. And dancers like Pina Bausch (images), her gestures, she takes a whole moment and compresses it into this one space. GB: I can see that from some of the contorted poses you choose. A lot of these seem to be portraits. Are you working from life or taking photos? |
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ET: I used to draw from life, but at this point I work on these things when I get home from work, at night, and it’s hard to get my wife to sit still for a couple of hours. (laughs) Lately the reference I get from them are poses that are more something I want them to be doing as opposed to what would be natural for them. Because I have a gut feeling of some imagery I would like to make. It’s not necessarily true to the person. When I get someone to do a pose, I’ll shoot all around them. So that way when I get in to distort things, I’ll have more reference. It’s like having them there in the space with me. So I can theoretically walk all around them. For example, I can take this part of the face and pull itaround over here. This is one of the things I learned in Illustration. I studied with Jim McMullan. He’s famous for his Lincoln Center posters, beautiful watercolors. He was really emphatic about not just getting the shot you wanted but getting the stuff all around it. |
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GB: We’ve mentioned Bacon, but I'm also seeing a bit of El Greco and early Picasso. ET: I dig El Greco, and Goya, I really love the blackperiod of his work. Both of them distorted for the purposes of what he was trying to communicate. There is something sort of sensuous about that, and the early Picasso as well.I don’t try to make things completely ugly. I like to play with a really compressed moment against something that’s a lot more stretched out. I think it builds tension in thepiece. |
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GB: Some of your pieces are prints. Are you doing it the GB: She said she was really dancing on it. Maybe that means ET: Maybe I should try that, the jumping. GB: Do you have downstairs neighbors? |
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I’d done these portraits lately of a friend of mine named T.J. and they kept getting ripped down. I would do these paintings that were taking a lot of time, whatever, they’re going to disappear, I know that. I found I was getting so fed up; it was like the image was jinxed. And I thought, "alright I’m going to start doing some charcoals, not going to do a woodcut, just charcoal drawings, fix them, and put them out". So the past five or six images I’ve been doing have been unique. And even with the Dremel my hands still hurt and it takes a good thirty hours to carve one of those things out. I like to draw a lot more than I like to carve the wood. But when it’s all carved out and you have the charcoal against the wood it’s so beautiful. The charcoal has so much more variation, the ink makes it flat, your line quality is the only thing. I like the charcoal better now. I like to constantly be playing with the image and pushing it around. |
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GB: What kind of paper do you use? ET: Usually kraft paper, because it’s a nice mid-tone, so GB: What size are you using? ET: I’ve been getting four foot wide rolls lately. I’m |
GB: What’s your workspace like? ET: I have luxurious 14 foot ceilings and lots of skylights for a workroom. Our actual living space is restricted to a loft all the way in the back.GB: What’s your technique on pasting? ET: I just go to the local hardware store and buy a gallon of wallpaper sizing, a brush and a little tin. GB: Do you have technique for being inconspicuous. No. (laughs) GB: Swoon says she just rolls her pieces up puts them in her backpack, gets on her bike, gets off her bike and does her thing like she is doing only what should be done. ET: (Laughs) I don’t do that man. I’m so paranoid. When you emailed me for this interview, and when I got here I was GB: You’ve got to pick your spots too. Swoon talks about third spaces, spaces that no one cares about, they’re the canvas for her works. |
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ET: They seem to be disappearing like mad. I find it really GB: A frame? |
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For instance, I put a piece on wall near some of WK’s GB: Oh, you did? Because most of your stuff is put up in Yeah, because I’m too lazy to go over into the city. ET: I’d actually wanted to put this Lucia portrait there. |
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GB: Have you ever had a close call with the police? GB: Any civilians ever come by and rag on you. GB: What about graff writers. Have they written over your work. GB: The nature of paste-ups, is here today and peeling and rotted tomorrow. Pasting doesn't seem quite as much of a marking of territory as painting does. |
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Photo: Guy on the Street |
ET: Part of a sign to me that it might be safe to put up GB: I know who you are talking about. I think he lives in |
GB: Could you talk about your word stuff, it reminds me of De La Vega and Christian Paine. Could you talk about that. |
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Photo: Michael Natale |
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ET: That started out of a period I felt I couldn’t draw right now, and I’m frustrated, and I was just writing in my journal. And I’d just read this thing in the Times where they interviewed REVS about his diaries down in the subway tunnels. And then I heard it again on This American Life. And I was thinking that maybe I could just put my thoughts out there. It related to this series I’d done for awhile, I called them anti-ads. | |
Photo: Guy on the Street |
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They had text and an image. I tried to play them off each other, and make it much more personal than advertising. Where I really tried to talk about myself and humanity in general, and instead of trying to sell you on something, I was trying to sell you on being a little bit more your own person. I liked the sense of putting something out there that maybe people can relate to. I started doing it more now with the images I draw on the doors. So I’ll take notes about people or something I’m feeling about what I’m looking at, or going through during the day. I had seen the REVS 8 1/2 x 11 wheat pastes in college all around, and sort of locked them away in my head. One day when I was feeling stuck with my stuff I thought it would be fun to do a whole seies of headlines like you see on the ny post, and paste them on news boxes( i figured this part out after doing about 20 of them on other surfaces). I was also going for something akin to signs for class president. sort of an ad campaign for elbowtoe. I had done one earlier on that combined imagery and text, this one was much more aggressive in it's message, the type was large(Impact font i believe) and i enjoyed the odd readings that you would get from the word wrap, like the one for elbow-toe dis-likes war. If you didn't take the time to read slowly it could almost be seen as elbow-toe likes war. And I would place them alot in pairs or on whole rows of I used to live on the Upper East Side, and I’d seen De la Vega, his stuff on the streets, I appreciated it. It was always a nice moment to come across. It was something you could interpret. It sort of came out of that, something else to try. Maybe it’s a bad habit, but I tend not to stick in one way of working for too long. I get really curious. I’m all over the place. GB: That’s a good thing, no? I mean it makes it hard for people to pigeon hole and market you, but what the hell. |
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GB: Do you have any other creative outlets, music? Any other creative outlets? No not really, not since street GB: I think it would be hard being creative on the computer ET: It’s nice to create something physical. |
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GB: List some street artists that have influenced you. GB: It’s really funny that he took his mother’s name. I went to school here in the 90 and I used to see REVS GB: Somebody’s taking all the boards down. On my site I GB: Someone told me that they are going up on EBay. ET: I wouldn’t be surprised. |
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I like WK Interact’s stuff, particularly the scale. GB: Photoshop stuff blown up large, Xerox machine manipulations. They're fun, look cool, are graphically bold and breathtakingly large but they sometimes strike me as a bit cold. .ET: He had to get permission to do those large pieces. GB: Yeah, I’m pretty sure of that. GB: Yeah, you don’t need that. And Os Gemeos, those Brazilian guys, not only do they climb insanely, but they are so fucking facile. GB: Yeah, mad skills, surreal figures, I love them. Faile stuff I think is great. GB: Faile and Bast, they’ve been pasting forever, and they’re such a part of the cityscape. Faile makes me laugh, and the Bast faces have a gravitas and mystery, but combining clip-art and scans on the computer and pasting it up, just doesn’t grab me like original artwork does. GB: Yeah his going into major museums last year and placing his own work along with official looking information plaques |
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ET: I mean it’s kind of nice he’s fucking with a different echelon. I know a lot of people who say, well advertising is all over the walls, and that’s our legitimate reason to have our stuff all over the walls. After getting into all this stuff, I actually like how the piece interacts with the space. It can totally change the corner of a block, if you put a cool looking piece there. On Beard Street over in Redhook, I don’t know who made them, there’s these sort of triangular things, then Swoon put some stuff up and some other person’s now put this |
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© Michael Natale and respective photographers |
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